In the following interview, we take a step back and look at the whole thing now that it’s all over, and particularly talk about the last issue and those final few pages. Plus, and as always, Millar gives us the latest on what’s coming next for him, including his next two major Marvel projects…

Newsarama: Mark, okay, now with the main storyline completed and this being your final word here on the subject, let’s go back and start at the beginning. Can you talk more openly/in more detail about secret origin of Civil War?

Mark Millar: Sure. Marvel has these retreats two or three times a year where the editorial and marketing staffs sit in a huge office for three days with all the senior writers. We've been doing this for the last three or four years, if memory serves, and it's actually a lot of fun. The idea behind the meetings is to brainstorm ideas for projects they can later attach writers to and just for everyone to give their two cents on all the projects coming up.

Anyway, House of M had just made them a ton of money, Infinite Crisis was looking good for DC and the summer crossover seemed to be very much back in vogue after seven or eight years of very self-contained books. Marvel had a plan for a crossover, but it wasn't very good and I remember Brian (Bendis) and I passing each other little notes saying as much. Naturally, I wasn't too bothered as I was about to take six months sick leave and was feeling kind of like Klinger in the final episode of M*A*S*H. I just had my eye on a sun-lounger in the garden and a lot of pills from my doctor as I sipped sparkling water and did Sudoko for a while. But Bri is a really dedicated Jewish kid and he went away slightly troubled, feeling we could do better.

Next morning we hopped a cab from the hotel together and he said he had a great idea. Why don't we do something he'd touched upon as part of his big New Avengers plans with regard to secret identities and registration? He had this idea of S.H.I.E.L.D. versus the Marvel Universe and I liked the sound of this, though by the time we met Jeph Loeb we all agreed that S.H.I.E.L.D. was being massively overused and it would be better of the heroes were fighting each other. I pinched the “Civil War” name from the project Hitchy and I were planning next because it was also about one group of Marvel heroes fighting another group of Marvel heroes and before we knew it a blockbuster was born. Or at least conceived, like so many other things, in the back of a taxi cab.

What was slightly annoying was that I really, really needed the break. I'd been told to take a break and rest up, but Joe Q. was cackling like Mephisto and rubbing his hands together because he saw how animated I was getting about this project. Brian had started the ball rolling, Jeph (who is the smartest guy in any room he walks into) had crystallized everything and then the ideas were coming so thick and fast to me that Joe knew he had me. I was scribbling notes and getting very excited, but kind of talked myself out of it on the plane home because it was suicide from a health point of view. I'd been told to rest-up and this would be a big deal, but as Joe explained to me when I spoke to him a few days later it was just a maxi-series. How long would it take to write? Yes, cue the most labor-intensive project I have ever worked on. Ever.

NRAMA: How is this story different than it might have been as it’s become Marvel’s biggest event since arguably Secret Wars? Did the story you envision fundamentally change in order to accommodate this massive storyline it would eventually become?

MM: Well, I started putting some ideas together and told Joe I was only going to do this if we could do something radical. As a kid, I was almost quite impressed by the idea of a pre-Crisis and post-Crisis DC universe, the notion of an event being so big it was literally a watermark and I said that it had to be that radical or it wasn't worth doing at all. I thought it was a great opportunity to either launch or relaunch a lot of books and wrote pages of notes for possible spin-offs, but it was mainly a chance to reinvigorate characters people hadn't looked at for a long time.

Cap and Iron Man, for example, have had some very good creative teams this past half-decade, but there's been a glass ceiling on sales between 40 and 45K no matter what. The idea of having them smack in the centre of this and raising their profile again was very intriguing because we'd done this with Ultimates when literally everybody tried to talk me and Bryan into doing Ultimate Wolverine instead.

So I had all these ideas and notes and I sent my plot out to the hive-mind of writers and editors and everybody sent me notes back, really great notes and constructive criticism and I assembled this into a plot for our next meeting where everybody got a chance to tear it apart or add some absolutely brilliant comment or critique or idea to make it better.

After this, I went home and just kept writing and rewriting the thing until we basically had something everybody liked. It's become legendary how many drafts this thing went through because I just kept changing my mind every week and writing brand new issues, throwing out maybe fifty pages of original script in the first few issues and just honing it down until we had something everyone was pleased with.

But the guys were amazing and should be commended here. Bri, Jeph and JMS were troopers, especially at the meeting stage, and guys like CB Cebulski just tossed in some of the most amazing notions or even lines I could use when I actually got around to writing the script. Joe was brilliant, utterly trusting on what was had to be the most radical set of events to happen in the Marvel Universe in a very long time, and never anything other than incredibly supportive.

But I have to single Tom Brevoort out as the guy who held the whole thing together. He restrained my worst excesses, came up with so many brilliant ideas and alternatives to my sometimes mental ideas and held the whole event together like no-one else could.

You'll notice I've got nothing else out until September and that's literally how big a chunk Civil War took from my life and I was only really working a few hours every day for the most part so Tom was the guy who handled all the other creative teams. I had one brief call with Paul Jenkins and didn't talk to anyone else the whole time. I just wrote my seven issues (several times each issue) and Tom coordinated the entire event, brainstorming all those tie-ins from opportunities or throw-away lines in the main book. It was a gargantuan task and why his Hercules-style beard isn't completely gray now is baffling. He held it all together brilliantly and is without question the true star of this crossover.

NRAMA: Was it always Cap vs. Iron Man, and if so, why these two characters and why did you see them choosing the sides they did?

MM: Yeah, I'm an Avengers fan. I'm an old school Marvel fan. So these guys always seemed like the big ones to me. They also perfectly summed up the argument between rational pragmatism and traditionalist idealism. S.H.I.E.L.D. were going to close down super-people, that eighties idea from Watchmen, and Reed, Tony, and Hank got together and came up with a third way which was super-people working with a government license. Only Tony would be that creative and Cap's the one guy alive who could not only lead the rebels but believe with all his heart in the lovely, almost public-service idea of a superhero. Having this as a big fight between Gambit and Captain Britain wouldn't really have had the same resonance.

NRAMA: Was this just always a Marvel Universe superhero story in your mind, or is/was it influenced by anything you’ve observed in the global political scene, and if so, what are those influences?

MM: Well, I'm hesitant to point to political allegory. It's there for the people who want it, but any story I write tends to be shaped more by headlines than my back-issue collection. You're either into that or you aren't, but I think it's part of the reason I seem to sell especially well to new, mainstream readers. I read the papers, I watch the news and this is what seeps into my writing as opposed to Lord of the Rings.

Obviously, there's a certain amount of political allegory in a story where a guy wrapped in the American flag is in chains as the people swap freedom for security, but I really made an effort to just make that stuff the gravy.

Above all else, this was a beat-em-up featuring every hero in the Marvel Universe. One of the huge differences between Marvel and DC for me as a wee boy was that Marvel guys would always meet, fight and then realize the error of their ways. It was peculiar, but also very unpredictable and exciting. That was honestly my big intention with the book. Superheroes fighting. Does it get more lowbrow than that? I'm sorry, but that's what excites my inner-ten year old and I'm heartened to hear retailers and friends tell me how much kids are into it.

The closest thing to porn when you're nine years old is seeing that explosion of color with 50 superheroes together in a single image. I used to stare at the insides of my hardback Marvel Annuals every year as a little kid on Christmas morning. It genuinely got me off trying to remember all the names. That's why I insisted on all those big multi-character covers. This was aimed at the eight year olds as much as the 40 year olds. Something happens on every page.

NRAMA: So then how much – if any part – of Civil War is you reflecting upon/commenting on the post 9/11, Iraq War era of US history?

MM: Who cares what I think of current U.S. foreign policy? People just want to see Hercules braining Thor with a fake Mjolner. I'd say The Ultimates is much more overtly political. As far as I'm concerned, Civil War was accidentally political because I just can't help myself.

NRAMA: Mark, any “event” by Marvel (or DC for that matter) of this size if going to be put under the microscope and be the object of intense reader scrutiny. Perhaps the more persistent criticism was the readers who didn’t think both sides were being represented equally, as the pre-publication marketing promised.

MM: What's funny when you read the main book is that it's pretty much Tony's side that gets the better rep all the way through. A lot of the tie-ins were interesting because the other writers chose to go against registration, but I don't believe for a second people would feel that way in the real world.

Would you really want these guys to be unlicensed? Vigilantes don't have super-powers and they're outlawed. Superheroes would be a nightmare. I'd be leading the march to Washington DC for the Sentinels to crush the bastards because I don't like seeing buildings come down and, as we all know, this happens at least once an issue these days. So I was backing Tony all the way.

What the other guys did in the tie-in books demonized them a little, but I think that made it interesting as Tony's victory at the end was much more of a curveball. Every page of this bloody book seemed to be leaked every month, but I was delighted to see most people were still surprised by the ending. They knew Tony would win because the solicits for the post-Civil War titles gave us huge clues, but Cap realizing people liked Tony's ideas and surrendering was a huge surprise. How can you call yourself Captain America when you're out of step with public opinion?

NRAMA: That all vocal fans that thought Tony Stark and Reed Richards especially we’re being written as heavies, going so far to say that they acted (i.e. were written) out of character, resorting to strong arm tactics to get their way – with the recruitment of the Thunderbolts (some cold-blooded killers) as an example. So much so that expectations that a Marvel villain would eventually be revealed as influencing them were present throughout.

How do your respond to that? You’re saying you did not intend to write any side as wearing the proverbial black hat? Readers just interpreted what they read with their own prejudices coloring it?

MM: Well, in a war people do dramatic things. Everything was at stake here and best friends can become worst enemies when they're passionate about something. Would Hank, et al, have made the clone Thor? Well, Hank made Ultron, right? Likewise, Tony's stumbled into a grey area before in things like the Armor Wars. There's blood on the hands of both sides, but that's war for you. It's never pretty. But they're superheroes and were only doing this stuff for the right reasons. Cap felt it was a huge mistake because he didn't want to be compromised by people in Washington, DC. Tony wanted superheroes to exist at a time when people were rightly calling for them to be scrapped. Like I said, everything was at stake here.

NRAMA: Talk some about Miriam Sharpe? First of all, would it be safe to assume she was crafted as least partly after was activist Cindy Sheehan, even if not ideologically?

MM: Yeah, sure.

NRAMA: What was your reaction to the theories that she was secretly Loki or Mephisto, pulling the pro-registration side’s strings?

MM: I loved reading that because it meant I was going to surprise everyone. Everyone kept expecting this to fall back into the pre-established structure. We did the same thing on Ultimates where we still, after 26 issues, haven't really featured super-villains as such. I'm more interested in shades of grey. It's just a personal preference, but these things all seem to sell a lot of books and get a lot of buzz so it's obviously tapping into something.

NRAMA: Another criticism we’ve seen (and this is someone anecdotal, we don’t mean to suggest how prevalent it was) is that the Registration question was settled early on, and while the battle between the sides was compelling from an action standpoint, the victory by the pro-registration side was complete. What were the last couple of issues about, given that even if Cap had landed the last blow to Iron Man, and Cap’s Avengers won the big battle, it wouldn’t have affected the law that was already put in place?

MM: Absolutely. We all felt Cap was going to win this because he had 70 years of superhero tradition behind him, but as the story moves on you realize he's fighting the tide of history. He's a cowboy who's still out there wearing a mask when all his friends were becoming sheriffs. It was a blow for Cap when this hit him in the big finale.

NRAMA: Speaking of which, no writer tricks allowed. If the crowd of pedestrians doesn’t jump him, does Cap deliver that last blow to Tony, yes or no? And either way, why?

MM: The look in their eyes says it all. This was the human moment where ideology was out of the window and one pal realized he was sitting on his friend and reading to smash a shield into his face. Cap would not have made that kill. Not a chance. This was the moment he would have backed down, but the paramedics and all those regular, human heroes tackling him to the ground hammered home the horror that he was out of step with the evolution of the super-guy.

NRAMA: Now before we get to that last scene, DVD style - can you talk about other endings that were considered? Is it correct that Joss Whedon particularly influenced the ending that saw publication?

MM: The second meeting was where everybody got to look at my plot and pick it apart. I don't think there was an ending at this stage and it's what we were all getting together to talk about. Had this been an Ultimate book, there would be no need, but I was borrowing the toys of others so everyone had to be happy with where their characters were left so it was all open to discussion.

The only thing I refused to do was kill one of the characters. This was suggested, but I thought it was insane as nobody would buy it and they'd be back six months later. Someone had suggested the return of Thor or The Hulk or a huge threat from the villains that had all the heroes stop in that big battle and focus on the new problem, but that seemed awful to me and again was falling back into a classic structure. I loved those comics as a kid, but how many times do Marvel heroes fight before teaming up and realizing Baron Blood is the guy they should be fighting?

So we were literally sitting for a day talking about the ending and the one we were uneasily going for was some kind of compromise where the heroes were literally stopped by the crowds they should have been saving, the public yelling at them and telling them to stop. But none of us really dug this, it felt unsatisfying. And so it was a relief when Joss walked into the room for, I sh*t you not, about ten minutes, heard the entire plot and nailed a bullseye. He said that after seven months of fighting people would want to see a winner. Breaking up the fight was a draw.

And he was right. God bless him, he was so on the money because it was incredibly satisfying to have a clear winner and a clear loser. Cap's fans will be happy because he won the fight and Tony's fans were happy because Tony won the argument. But it was definitive and satisfying and absolutely the right call to make. His work done, Whedon donned his hat, climbed back on his horse and rode off into the sunset to help others. I'm not kidding, the bugger was there ten minutes and he solved everything.

NRAMA: Now, the last scene with Tony and Miriam.

First of all, the 100 things Tony, Reed, and Hank wrote down the night of the Stamford tragedy. You revealed two of them – the Negative Zone prison and cleaning up S.H.I.E.L.D.… Are the other 98 just a storytelling prop or do many more ideas exist on a computer somewhere and how (if at all) will they influence the Marvel Universe in the next few years?

MM: They're all there to be used by the people writing the books. I started this little brain-trust between Tony, Hank and Reed in my Wolverine: Enemy of the State storyline (hardcover still available for all completists) and I liked the idea of the smartest guys in the Marvel Universe using their brains as well as their fists to make the world a better place.

The Negative Zone prison made sense to me because how many times does the Absorbing Man smash his way out of Ryker's and attack New York before the people get pissed off. I just applied that logic to a few things and the 50 State Initiative was another. One of my brothers started a business called the Scottish Initiative where he pooled the resources of several charities across the regions and made one big super-charity a few years back. This gave me the idea of a superhero team comprised of other teams across fifty states because all the Marvel heroes were stuck on the west coast and I thought there could be an amazing moment when they all got together and we saw literally 250 heroes standing here as an enormous team ready to kick some ass. I planted a few seeds like this and passed these on for other writers, but it's entirely up to them what they do with it.

Matt Fraction (surely the next big writer) took my L.A. Champions idea and did something ten times better in the upcoming series. Likewise, my little notion of angry heroes fleeing to Canada to become the new Alpha Flight (literally just a one line pitch) has been turned into something great by Mike Oeming. His line-up for that book is really clever and inspired. So I really just made up a lot of little throwaway concepts in the parent book and other writers have turned them into something special.

NRAMA: Going to break the fourth wall here and injected a personal comment, but those last few pages, I’m not sure whether I hear the main Star War’s title theme in the background, or the Imperial March…

Or in other words, straight from the writer’s mouth, how is one supposed to interpret Tony’s speech? Sincere or menacing?

MM: Totally sincere. I love Tony. Tony's mental, but charming and smart and utterly idealistic. He only wants the best. He's the Marvel hero I'd be most likely to hang out with were I ever sucked through a wormhole into the Marvel Universe.

NRAMA: Either way, the lesson of the inevitable failure of trying to create utopia is almost a literary sub-genre in of itself. Every third episode of the original Star Trek was about someone’s earnest attempt going horribly awry, wasn’t it? Marvel has done the story numerous times itself, with Mark Gruenwald’s Squadron Supreme a standout.

So again, straight from the writer’s mouth moving forward. Be them sincere or not, can Tony and Reed and Hank’s intention be interpreted as anything but ultimately foolhearty, dangerous, and doomed?

MM: Anything noble can be interpreted as foolhardy, dangerous, and doomed. But superheroes are all about trying and these guys just want to make the world a better place.

NRAMA: Again, brining admittedly personal prejudices into the discussion, as a reader are you supposed to finish Civil War #7and not being thinking “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely” After all, Tony – already one of the smartest and most powerful beings on the planet - now controls an army of WMD’s and as he indirectly points out, he knows all their secrets.

MM: He knew them anyway. Tony is the best friend the superheroes could ever have. Had he not come up with this idea of them being licensed by the government, they'd all be getting crushed by Sentinels right now. We can't forget that. Stamford was the tipping point.

NRAMA: So now that the last page is written, as much as you are aware of and can talk about, how much of what you’ve now created is going to serve as the backbone for the Marvel Universe of the next few years?

MM: I think so. I know the plans for the next couple of years and this feels very much like a new beginning. Like I said at the start, I wasn't interested otherwise. It had to be a big one otherwise I'd have just stayed in the garden all year doing Sudoko.

NRAMA: And how much of that will affect your future work? Are any of your secret projects going to be influenced by and play directly off of the post-Civil War Marvel Universe?

MM: Yes, definitely. Eagle-eyed readers will have noticed I had about 15 comics out last year and this year is even more sparse. Most creators have 3-4 books out a year and so as much as I like to save my readers money I have now started working again. Civil War took up most of last year and then I took the big break I was supposed to take, but the New Year meant work beginning in earnest again and I'm having a great time.

I'm writing issue six of the big series Hitchy and I take over late summer and details of this will be available one week after Ultimates 13 ships. He's already making good progress on it and I'm having a great time. After Civil War, it feels incredibly easy and just kind of fun.

Another Marvel project I'm planning is a return to a book I really, really loved working on. You'll hear about this in the summer, but I start in a few weeks time. I came up with the story a few months back and am itching to get started. Huge, huge superstar artist on this, but more this summer once it becomes official.

Also, in the Autumn I think, 1985 finally comes out. As you know, this is now being drawn by the brilliant Tommy Lee Edwards. I wrote it eighteen months back now so can't wait to see it myself.

NRAMA: You said you were going to speak to Marvel in the next week (back in April) about Blade and/or Ghost Rider projects you really wanted to do?

MM: Yeah, they turned down Ghostie as they had a ton of Ghost Rider projects which was fair enough. Blade is a huge part of the book I'm returning to. Can't wait as I'm a huge Blade fan. Dave Goyer had been talking to me about writing an episode of the show so I was really bummed when it got canned. I love Blade.

NRAMA: You also mentioned really wanting to work with Ryan Sook and wanting to set something up with him?

MM: Hopefully.

NRAMA: So how about an update on Ultimates 2? Not to mince words, why have readers still not seen the final issue yet?

MM: Man, I don't even remember. Bry actually did this in about six weeks, which is amazing as it's a double-sized issue. But the inks didn't start until Bryan finished and now the coloring is happening. I think it was a genuine mix-up and there's a special thing in the ish that meant the printers took an extra month. I don't want to spoil the surprise, but you'll see what I mean. Either way, I could have cried. That said, these 26 issues are the best thing either of us have done so better having it done right than botched. Apologies for the delay, but it's good so hope people like it.

NRAMA: You already mentioned the next Hitch project. What else can you tell readers?

MM: An established title. Household name. One of these characters was created in the sixties and another in the forties. Three sexy girls. The opening line in the first issue is “Once Upon A Time”. The villain in the third and fourth issues has been known as Cap. Bruce Banner has some involvement in this series. Likewise, two of Marvel's most popular and famous villains. Hitchy prefers it to Ultimates. Oh, and we're out in September.

NRAMA: Now, Millarworld Phase 1 – you told us about Kick-Ass with John Romita Jr. and back in April you expected this to be published by the end of 2006, along with the completed The Unfunnies? Where are you on those two things and what more can you tell readers about Kick-Ass?

MM: No, Kick-Ass was always planned for this summer. I've written the first ish and Johnny's going to be drawing soon. It's coming out from Icon and is planned as four issues. The Unfunnies is finished, deals are signed and should be out anytime. I've no idea when this appears, but will drop William at Avatar a note to check.

NRAMA: And how about the Millarworld Phase 2 line-up. Again, back in April you expected to announce the line-up during last summer’s convention season and were aiming for a spring ’07 debut…? Here is what you expected it to be back then…”We're looking at a four-issue superhero series, a three-issue superhero series, a three-issue horror, some horror one-shots and American Jesus (the sequel to Chosen).”

MM: All in the pipeline, but between Civil War taking forever and being really sick last year I need to honor my Marvel contract before I can do many other side projects. King and Country is coming out from a big book publisher, but it's otherwise Marvel all the way for a while. I still have about 14 months left on my contract so it's unlikely we'll see any other creator-owned stuff before then.

NRAMA: Finally, before we let you go, what is interesting you/what are you working on outside the realm of comic book publishing?

MM: Like all my pals, the TV and movie people have come calling and even the computer game people (which is weird because games are for pedos and I have no interest). Comics are my first love, but it would be crazy to turn down some of these gigs and so we're all biting at the moment. I've been developing King and Country as a TV thing as well as an original graphic novel, but my main area of interest is genre movies in Hollywood.

Now Wanted is in production and there's a certain amount of heat. Weirdly, all these guys read the comics so it's quite weird to have big name directors and producers familiar with me when I genuinely just write this stuff in a spare bedroom and know virtually no-one here who reads comics. It's nice, though, and I'm just doing what I do in comics for a new audience. I've written an original screenplay, which people seem to like, and have been offered a few nice gigs, one of which is an established comic-book character. So it's fun and I'm enjoying myself, which is the main thing. But every minute I'm away from comics is a reminder how brilliantly autonomous comics are and how I could never, ever leave it. The ink's in the blood.