The second of Wagner's two-part "Dark Moon Rising" storyline, the six issue Batman and the Mad Monk miniseries begins in August, re-telling for a contemporary audience of one of Batman's first encounters with criminals who were more…freakish than your ordinary gangster or mobster.

Case in point, the Mad Monk. Originally published in 1939, the story was one of the first multi-part Batman adventures, and was decidedly flavored by the pulp nature that comics were slowly breaking free from to establish their own genre. As such, the Mad Monk was a vampire, and Batman ultimately dispatched him with a gun.

Wagner began his larger "Dark Moon Rising" story, with Monster Men which caught up with a "Year 1.5" Batman facing off Professor Hugo Strange and his genetically engineered monstrosities. While Batman was smashing monsters at night, Bruce Wayne has his own difficulties, juggling his relationship with Julie Madison, whose father had gotten involved with organized crime in an effort to save his own company.

We spoke with Wagner for a recap of Monster Men and where Batman's at in this time period, as well as a look at where things are headed for The Mad Monk.

Newsarama: So, time-wise, where does The Mad Monk pick up? Is it immediately after Monster Men, or is there some time passage?

Matt Wagner: I'd say approximately a month or so has elapsed-maybe just shy of that. There are still some unresolved issues from the first series in the air and this series kicks off with Batman confronting a familiar face-a scene that clarifies why Hugo and his Monsters are really the first "super villains" he's met.

NRAMA: Speaking of that confrontation with Hugo and his Monsters, let's talk the larger ramifications in Batman's worldview. During Monster Men, Bruce even allowed himself to think that he might have Gotham cleaned up and could stop being Batman in the foreseeable future. Does he still think that, despite the…broadening of the threat to his city in the form of Hugo and the Monsters?

MWOf course he still thinks that. After his years and years of training with such a single-minded obsession, he's not going to be utterly dismayed nor dissuaded by what he would surely see as a freakish run in with something outside his normal cast of enemies. Again, I think of Bruce as very goal-oriented. Eventually, we know that his war on crime becomes something of a self-perpetuating cycle but, at this stage, he still sees a possible resolution to his unresolved feelings of anger and guilt. He thinks he can win this thing and he's still proceeding with that objective in mind. It'll take varying degrees of further tragedy in his life to sink him into the endless world of battles and skirmishes that will eventually consume him.

NRAMA: Going back to what you said about Hugo and the Monsters being Batman's first "super villains," Strange is also the first in a long line of villains who're seemingly obsessed with Batman. Steve Englehart explored this aspect in his "Dark Detective" arc with Marshall Rogers, but you planted the seeds here. What's at the root of Strange's issues with Batman? There seems to be a real streak of jealousy there, that he hates Batman because he's not Batman. Is that were it lies? Huge hates Batman because he's swinging more metaphorical meat than Hugo?

MW: HA! Now that's a metaphor! Yeah, my take on Hugo is that his obsession with Batman stems from his own…ahem…physical shortcomings. Hugo is brilliant and obsessively driven in his zealous pursuit of perfection. Aside from his, let's call it "moral ambiguities," that makes him very similar to Bruce in a variety of ways. Unfortunately, in the cards that fate has dealt them both, Hugo got the…ahem…short end of the stick. As was hinted at in the first issue of Monster Men and is expanded upon just a bit in Mad Monk, their lives are both scarred by tragedy and loneliness. But, whereas Bruce has buckets of wealth, looks, stature and ethical clarity, Hugo grew up poverty-stricken, physically stunted and, again, morally ambiguous. In short, he's a mean, bitter little shit who sees in Batman - and eventually Bruce - everything he's that not. And thus, the obsession takes root. And, on that note, let's leave the penis envy metaphors aside.

NRAMA: Fair enough. Let's move on to other characters from Monster Men whose arcs are still unresolved, specifically Julie Madison. Does he still think that someday, this is the girl he could settle down with? Seriously, or is he deluding himself? I mean - he drugged her in #5… Does Bruce really think that, with what he does, he can ever have a normal relationship?

MW: Not in the immediate sense but, again, at this point he's still looking to the future.

NRAMA: But he drugged her…and not in a "Drink this, it will calm your nerves," way, but in a "I hope she didn't see me slip this pill in her drink," kind of way.

MW: Well, in addition to being very goal-oriented, Bruce is obviously an "ends-justifies-the-means" kind of guy. In fact, I'd say most super-heroes qualify as that sort. To his mind, he had no choice but to drug Julie. It was Batman that made that a necessity, not Bruce. But he does deeply care for Julie, regardless of the fact that he still finds it necessary to constantly lie to and mislead her. I think there's a part of Bruce's mind that realizes that he is, in fact, far from "normal" and yet "normal" is a state of being that he - perhaps hopelessly - longs for. In fact, his one-man crusade against crime is, in many ways, aimed at protecting "normalcy". He wants the normal people of the world to sleep peacefully at night, never knowing the dark and despicable dangers that wait right outside their door. He ventures into that dark, night after night, just so that their blissfully ignorant sense of reality is left unmarred. To quote myself, from the second issue of Trinity: "AND SO, HE FIGHTS. FOR JUSTICE. SO THAT NO OTHER NEED HEAR THE ECHOES THAT HAUNT HIS DREAMS."

Normal people have girlfriends. Normal people get married and, ultimately, settle down. And part of Bruce longs to, someday, be normal. He's doing everything in his power to hammer out the dent that his parent's murder left in his normalcy and, again, he thinks that's-someday-achievable.

NRAMA: Moving on, and speaking of other not-normal people - Norman Madison, Julie's father. He's a borderline criminal and Monster Men left him…broken, and convinced that Batman is after him, right?

MW: Absolutely. The thing to remember about Norman is that, aside from the certain pomposity that being such a "captain of industry" has instilled in him, he's really a decent guy. He's got a pretty firm sense of moral fiber that's been utterly shaken by the events of Monster Men. He rails against those "Goddamn criminals", he supports worthwhile charities, he's even raised his daughter - mostly alone, I might add - to be something of a dedicated legal crusader. In fact, he only finds himself so involved with the mob as a result of trying to save the jobs and pensions of the many employees who have come to depend upon him. Remember, at the beginning of Monster Men, we saw that he had quite a vivid, if disapproving, interest in the rumored activities of Gotham's mysterious "Bat-man". Well, as you've correctly pointed out, the events of the first series have turned that interest into more of an obsession.

NRAMA: Moving on to your next installment then - The Mad Monk. Using history as a guide, the original Mad Monk was a vampire. Any indication if that will be holding true this time around?

MW: Yep. In fact, the original tale ends with our hero actually shooting both the Monk and his vampire girlfriend, Dala, pointblank with silver bullets as they lay asleep in their coffins.

NRAMA: Mmmm. Kill them in their sleep. Heroic.

MW: Hey - again, those early stories were really formed and influenced by the pulp traditions that preceded them. Anyway, I don't want to give away too much here, but…despite the events depicted in Monster Men, which have their basis in science, after all…

NRAMA: Which science?

MW: Okay, twisted "comic-book" science, but still… You just can't imagine Batman quickly coming to the conclusion that there's really a vampire on the loose in Gotham, even after the bloodless corpses start showing up. He'd have trouble wrapping his analytical mind around that concept, don't you think?

NRAMA: In his modern day incarnation, where he's best fiends with a woman made from clay, an alien, and knows many who dally in magic, no, but then, when he was still fresh…probably not.

Along those lines, in your mind, does or did Bruce ever have a "holy shit!" moment, when he realized that his world of criminals was moving from the organized crime of The Roman and his henchmen to Huge Strange and his monstrosities, as well as the Mad Monk? Does he ever wonder why his world changed? After all, there's a world of difference between one of the Roman's lieutenants and say, the Joker…

MW: No, he doesn't experience that kind of self-introspection. Bruce is a very extroverted character-a description that might surprise some who think of him as the brooding sort. But think of it…he not the type to sit at home and fret over whether what he's doing is right. Otherwise, he'd never even leave the cave at night! He's got a moral certainty that enables him to take control of and conquer his fears. In fact, he takes that fight directly back to the source. "You criminals out there…you think you're so scary and shit? Well here…let me show what scary is all about!" No, Bruce's world and his behavior consistently changes due to one reason only-personal tragedy.

NRAMA: As you explained back when we first talked about Monster Men, Mad Monk, presumably, will be your take on this, one of Batman's first historical cases that had yet been incorporated into modern-day continuity. So - broad strokes - what needs tweaking, updating or adjusting so things fit a little bit better with what's been done since?

MW: Oh, continuity, continuity, continuity…[sigh]

Okay, I'm trying to make this fit into the gap between Batman: Year One and The Man Who Laughs one-shot that Ed Brubaker and Doug Mahnke did a year or so ago, which is Batman's first in-continuity encounter with the Joker.

After that, Batman's firmly in the world of his ever-expanding rogues gallery. I leave it on a note that should please the continuity hounds - I think it's pretty cool ending too, in fact - and which fits nicely into what we know will eventually follow for him.

NRAMA: That said, and going back to what you mentioned about the ending of the original "Mad Monk" story, is there a fundamental difference that proves to be a hurdle in doing what you're doing with the stories? After all, your version of the Mad Monk and the original Mad Monk story were written in two very different times for two very different audiences for two relatively different formats.

MW: Well, it should come as no surprise that one of my strongest story-telling motivations is a well-developed sense of character. I want you to feel that the people you're reading about are recognizable on some level-that you understand their psyches and, therefore, their actions. And, of course, I also want to tell a good yarn. I want to make it exciting as well as captivating. Again, I've always maintained that, as a story-teller, it's my job to take my readers on a journey into the unknown. The results should be surprising, but also, familiar enough to entertain as well as enthrall. I found these original stories to be great sources that I could easily farm for all the ingredients I just mentioned. There's a certain elemental purity to those early Batman tales and I've had a blast reinterpreting them.

NRAMA: Comparatively, where's Bruce's mind by the time of Mad Monk? For Monster Men, he was confident, and then, slightly out of his element when he realized what he was up against. As a result of Monster Men, has his confidence taken a hit? Are his journal entries are now: "Dear Diary - okay, maybe six years instead of five. These guys are NUTS!" ?

MW: No, I try to give his internal monologue a certain analytical calm. He's still not convinced that there is a tsunami of weirdness waiting to strike Gotham. He does, though, give some thought to how his presence on the scene has changed the dynamics of crime in the city that he loves. He's not operating on some premeditated time-table for how long this task of cleaning up Gotham is going to take him. It's more like that old description of obscenity…he'll know it when he sees it.

NRAMA: Given that in a way, it does affect the era in which you're writing these miniseries, Infinite Crisis revealed that, once again, Bruce knows Joe Chill killed his parents, and Chill was caught. In your mind, does that knowledge change Batman at all?

MW: No, because he's not on a path of personal vengeance. If his mission were a vendetta of that sort, he would have simply tracked Chill down himself and killed the bastard. But, again, Bruce's not just a pissed-off crime victim with an overwhelming grudge. He's a hero, whose aims are much broader reaching and, gratefully, far more selfless than that. I thought the Batman Begins movie did a pretty good job of showing that. He actually toys with the idea of murdering Chill in retribution but, ultimately, finds that path too pathetic and unfulfilling. He's not trying to save himself from tragedy and pain. He's trying to save others. And, again, that's what makes him a hero.

NRAMA: Okay - starting the wrap up then, broad strokes again, and especially for those who never picked up a reprint of the original story, what's up with the Mad Monk and where do things head in the miniseries?

MW: Well, again, we'll see some familiar faces pop up although the main characters are already in place; Bruce, Julie, her father, Gordon. These original storylines are some of the more spectacularly outlandish of Batman's early adventures and, in fact, the issues starring the Mad Monk feature one of the first examples of what will also become a recurring theme in the Bat-mileau; the villainous deathtrap. These became such a cliché in golden-age Batman stories, that they were mercilessly mocked in the campy '60's TV show. So, I couldn't resist including one in my version. Batman's found himself in some tight spots before, but this is the first time he's trapped in a situation that is distinctly meant to slowly and torturously kill someone. And so far as the overall story goes…

NRAMA: And as for the lead character?

MW: The Mad Monk is a pretty descriptive title, so I don't think I really need to explain too much in that regard. He's a blood-thirsty freak who wears a Spanish Inquisition-type robe and Batman's gotta stop him. 'Nuff said.

NRAMA: Finally, just casting the net a little wider…the Mad Monk hasn't been seen lately in current continuity…and here you are polishing him up a little. Coincidence, or could there possibly be some Mad Monk action in the present day coming up?

MW: HA! Like I'd know what they've got in mind for future storylines… I'm just an indy auteur they let play with their big toys now and again Thanks, Bob! Thanks, Dan!.

Still, he's a creepy-as-shit character with a great, classic villain look. DC would be stupid to not just bleed the hell out him.

NRAMA: So to speak.

MW: So to speak.

Discuss this story

Homepage