Dark Reign The List The Punisher(spoilers wanted)

by **jackhawk66** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:41 am

Marvel said someone woul die in this issue. Anyone care to reveal who it was?

by **jsf** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:43 pm

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The Punisher. Daken cuts off his arms, and then his head, and then his torso. And kicks the parts off a building top (where they were fighting) into an alley below.

Very graphic, quite gruesome, and not very fun to watch if you're a Punisher fan (which I am).

by **drgnrbrn316** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:29 pm

More Spoilers

On the bright side, the preview for Punisher #11 shows his parts being gathered by...something...and taken to Man Thing (who was taken down in the most recent issue of Dark Avengers, and killed in Marvel Zombies 3 before that...gotta love continuity)

We know we get a Frankenstein's Monster form of Punisher, but hopefully this is only a temporary turn of events, because I'll be highly dissatisfied if they permanently turn Frank into some ghoul.

by **Sevedris** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:33 pm

It's about time Frank got killed. That he tries going up against superpowers never ceases to amaze me.

by **Sokar** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:09 pm

so does this effect the punisher max series?

by **Clem** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:18 pm

Sokar wrote:so does this effect the punisher max series?

No, to put it simply. The Punisher Max book is being relaunched by Jason Aaron, taking place in the past/out of continuity, most likely to cater to the large number of fans who will throw down their Remender Punisher comic in disgust at the thought of Franken-Castle.

Did Marvel learn nothing from Frank's supernatural days? It took Garth Ennis years to salvage the character from that c***.

by **jsf** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:30 pm

Here's a link to a new interview by Remender explaining why things have taken the turn they have (and which makes some sense regarding Frank's death), as well as a couple of panels from the fight. Spoilers of course.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=23503

by **Sokar** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:27 pm

wow frankencastle is just makes me sick to my stomach, i would rather have seen marvel stop the punisher books after garth ennis left then deal with this c@#$. how long is it going to take to get out of this hole?

by **Perephal** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:10 pm

I think man-thing is immortal, which is why he can always keep coming back.

by **Clem** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:27 am

Sokar wrote:wow frankencastle is just makes me sick to my stomach, i would rather have seen marvel stop the punisher books after garth ennis left then deal with this c@#$. how long is it going to take to get out of this hole?

Well Daken hacked him into little bitty pieces, so digging out of the hole is a task that can only be described by the term gargantuan.

I don't think i could hate Remender's logic for doing this more. He's essentially seen how good the incoming Jason Aaron is at straight-up Punisher stories, gotten worried and decided to go in completely the other direction of...not Punisher stories. Which is such a stupid reason, i feel like banging my head on the desk.

Also, he says he's doing this to expand the Punisher's supporting cast, by giving Frank new nemesis' in Hood and Daken, but what future writer telling a Punisher story would want to get into "gee, remember the time Daken hacked me up and i turned into Frankenstein..." or even better "remember when the Hood resurrected my family and i slaughtered their reanimated asses for no apparent reason...". Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

I don't know how you'd get away with this with ANY character to be honest. Unless it's their actual origin, it's so wildly off-base it's demented. It'd be like saying "We know you loved Spider-Man, so you'll just love Were-Spider!" or "Wolverine has been supressing his blood lust for years, but no more! Now, new and improved Vampirine!".

by **Perephal** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:32 am

I'm with everyone who said that this should not be permamanent. I think it does look stupid, but Remenders Punisher has been so good so far I'm actually kind of excited about it. The thing is about the Punisher is that he has always been a very one dimensional character (I haven't read the out of continuity Max) so whatever Remender is doing to make him a more interesting character I'm into. I love the idea of expanding Punisher's universe as well. Again I'm not saying FrankenCastle is a good long term idea, but I'm down with a couple arcs at least. Remember Spider-Hulk? or Evil world killing Wolverine from enemy of the state? It worked there because they weren't permanent, and if this isn't permanent I think it will be great. If it is permanent then it better be one of the best fricken comic books ever written or I see this being very poorly recieved.

by **MarkParnell** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:09 am

I am not currently collecting the Punisher but given the popularity of the character under Ennis and now Aaron and Remender I doubt Marvel will keep him in his current state for long. My guess is that once Siege is done there will be a re-set of sorts and one outcome is the Punisher returned to a normal state. Hell if you want to make it interesting, give Castle his family back and put him on the defensive for a few years. He has made a hell of a lot of enemies over the years and once word got out that he had a family, it would not be long before they come gunning for them. That is a Punisher series that I would buy.

by **Xheight** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:42 pm

Ok I am not a Punisher fan so perhaps I am out of line but that was just so...Kick-Ass. JRjr. Loved it and right on the mark as has been said about going up against superpowers. Perfect holloween treat with a neat trick at the end :lol:

by **archer9** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:52 pm

I thought it was a pretty cool story. I'm looking forward to the Frankencastle story. Do any of you guys seriously think he's gonna stay that way forever??? He'll be back to normal before long. In the meantime I'm looking forward to this weird story.

by **darkthief** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:32 pm

Daken? the same that was humiliated by 4 third class villians?.....marvel just cant wait for Ennis to get one foot out of the punisher and BANG! they destroy him?

by **Clem** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:25 am

archer9 wrote:I thought it was a pretty cool story. I'm looking forward to the Frankencastle story. Do any of you guys seriously think he's gonna stay that way forever??? He'll be back to normal before long. In the meantime I'm looking forward to this weird story.

It's not that i don't realise Franken-Castle is only temporary, it's that it'll take no end of work to get him back to his traditional status quo and not have it seem contrived.

The weirdest part of this whole thing is that we've been down this road before. Frank died already. Came back as some f***ed up avenging angel. Everyone hated it. Couldn't sweep it under the rug fast enough.

Plus, are we ignoring that Heaven and Hell clearly exist in the Marvel Universe? Is Frank's soul in Hell right now? Can this new patchwork creature even be regarded as Frank besides a few chunks of reanimated tissue? Why is this even a discussion in a Punisher comic?

by **Rasdock** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:13 am

drgnrbrn316 wrote:More Spoilers
On the bright side, the preview for Punisher #11 shows his parts being gathered by...something...

Moloids.

I dropped the Punisher book a while back but picked this up because JRjr's art looked nice in the store. I like Tony Moore from Walking Dead, but this looks dumb.

by **miraclemoose** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:18 am

Rasdock wrote:
Moloids.

Isn't that the best word in the english language?! Everyone loves a moloid.

I thought it was hugely refreshing to see Franks get dismembered -- of course, even a fourth-rate superhuman would sashimi-fy our frank.

by **Perephal** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:07 am

you know it's been said that the PUnisher really can't go up against any super humans, but I think over the past 2 years he's been doing a great job. Both Fractions work and Remenders have been really great, and both of them showed that his ingenuity won out over pure power. I love the way he took out the Rhino, lol. Putting this in comic books terms, Frank is probably as skilled a fighter as Batman, he might lack the ingenuity but he has enough to take down some superpowers.

by **drgnrbrn316** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:10 pm

Part of what I liked about Punisher was that he was a normal guy. He didn't have super powers, or a large portion of the world's fortune. He was a normal guy with a pretty cynical view of society and access to weapons. Despite his limitations, he was always capable of holding his own against some pretty powerful foes. With the aide of Henry and Rampage before him, he did alright. Heck, he even held his own against the Sentry without getting tossed into the sun.

I didn't really like Remender's comment that he gave him a death worthy of his status. Sure he went down swinging, but he didn't take anyone with him. I'd have liked it better if he had fallen while taking down some of those resurrected villains, but instead, he goes out being cut to ribbons by Daken's claws. Problem is, he'll never get revenge for that. Daken is too close to the top tier now to even have a chance of getting wasted by Punisher.

Now, he's a monster. I'm sure there's some symbolism there, but that doesn't make for a good story. Instead, we're treated to what will be six issues of a nearly brain dead Frank running around as a super powered monster, fighting monster hunters. At the end of this arc, or one near after, Frank and his monster friends will find whatever relic they're looking for that will magically turn Frank into something resembling normal. By then, I suspect that a lot of people will have fled the book, which will go into hiding for a while, until someone else digs it back up and we forget this ever happened. Kind of like what happened last time they tried to change the direction of the Punisher books.

And I don't agree with the logic that another Punisher book is doing good things, so let's shift gears and do something different here. That would be like having Wacker say that he likes Bendis's work on Ultimate Spidey, so he's going to make 616 Spidey fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes, so they aren't treading similar ground.

I'll give Frankencastle a chance, but I ain't happy about it.

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